Yes, high quality guest posts CAN get you penalized!

July 6, 2013

I’m pretty sure you’re a smart SEO.  You’re not one of those SEOs who gets links from low quality sources like comment spam, low quality directories and fake forum profiles, right?  You are likely able to get great links by writing good, authoritative articles and getting them published on high quality sites.  Those site make an editorial decision on whether or not to publish your article and include your links, so these are naturally earned links, right?

I’m writing this article to tell you that these “high quality” links can actually get you penalized.  Stick with me and I will share about cases where I have seen this happen.

Added July 10, 2013 – Scroll to the bottom to see comments from an interview with Matt Cutts.

Added October 17, 2013 – Scroll to the bottom to see Matt Cutts talking about how guest posting can get you penalized.

Added Jan 21, 2014 – Matt Cutts has just published a warning to site owners not to Guest Blog for links: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/guest-blogging/

What is guest posting?

I’m going to take a step back here and make sure that everyone knows what I am talking about.  While this article is primarily written for an audience with strong SEO skills, it is also meant to help the struggling site owner who is exploring options on how he or she can get links to their site.

Guest posting, also known as guest blogging, is a technique where a site owner or their SEO will write an article and get it published on another website. If you are using guest posting as an SEO tactic, then the purpose of doing guest posting is to get links back to your site.  These links can come in the form of an author box link, or a contextual link within the article.

 

Low quality guest posting

Some guest posting is obviously low quality.  For example, a cheap SEO tactic that actually used to work well in the past would be to pay an offshore writer a small fee to write several low quality articles and then use automated software to get those articles published on article marketing sites.  Here is an example:

http://goarticles.com/article/Payday-Loans-for-Your-Cash-Needs/7693081/

*Please note that the examples that I give in this article are random ones that I have found on the web and not client examples.

You can see there is a contextual link in the article body.  (However, it is nofollowed and will not offer any SEO benefit) and then there is the author box which contains two links containing anchor text as well as a url anchored link:

Author box

 

Medium Quality Guest Posting

I would venture a guess that the majority of guest posting links that SEOs obtain these days come from this category.  Here is an example:

http://www.travelblat.com/5-quick-tips-on-getting-the-best-flight-deals-this-holiday-season/

The article has some merit.  I could probably learn some things from it.  It’s a travel article that is published on a travel blog.  There is a link back to the author’s site in the author box.  It’s not as blatantly spammy as the first example, but it’s still not a link that I would call a good one.

 

High Quality Guest Posting

The examples described above are obviously articles that were created with the sole purpose of obtaining a link.  But take a look at the following examples and see what you think.  These are high quality sites that have published informative and helpful articles.  Surely getting a link from one of these sites would be a good thing, right?

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2013/03/12/apis-are-dead-long-live-apis/

http://smallbiztrends.com/2006/01/how-marketing-research-can-benefit-a-small-business.html

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/guest-post-five-key-elements-for-a-new-model-of-apprenticeship/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alliance-for-global-conservation/guest-post-ethan-zohn—s_b_797006.html

 

If you were given the opportunity of guest posting on one of the above sites, would you take it?  Most likely you would!  Those are high PageRank sites and a link from them would be fantastic.  But could links like this actually hurt your site?

 

What Does Google Say?

You have probably already seen this Matt Cutts video.  But if not, watch it.  Stay tuned, however, as later in this article I have much more specific advice from Google on guest posting.

In this video, Matt basically says that “high quality” guest posting could be ok, but “low quality” guest posting done on a large scale can be penalized by Google.  Well that’s nothing new.  We already knew that publishing several hundred low quality articles with keywords as anchor text pointing back to our site is not a good idea.  What we really want to know is whether or not a site can get in trouble for doing “high quality” guest blogging.

 

I recently stumbled across a very interesting Google Webmaster Central Hangout.  These hangouts are run by Google employee, John Mueller  John runs these hangouts so that webmasters can ask questions and learn to create and promote their sites in ways that meet the Google Quality Guidelines.

Start watching this video at 49:56:

In this video a hangout participant says that they regularly submit articles to the Huffington post and wants to know if they should nofollow the links that go from those articles back to their site.  (In case you didn’t know, adding a nofollow attribute to a link tells Google not to flow PageRank through the link.  The result is that the link does not add any direct SEO benefit to your site.)  Here is what John says,

 

Generally speaking, if you’re submitting articles for your website, or your clients’ websites and you’re including links to those websites there, then that’s probably something I’d nofollow because those aren’t essentially natural links from that website.

 

Here is another question from a Webmaster Central Hangout.  In this one, a site owner, Ryan Schwartz asks if it is ok to get links to his real estate site via guest posting.  Start watching at 31:19:

Here is what John Mueller said:

 

Think about whether or not this is a link that would be on that site if it weren’t for your actions there.  Especially when it comes to guest blogging, that’s something where you are essentially placing links on other people’s sites together with this content, so that’s something I kind of shy away from purely from a linkbuilding point of view.  I think sometimes it can make sense to guest blog on other peoples’ sites and drive some traffic to your site because people really liked what you are writing and they are interested in the topic and they click through that link to come to your website but those are probably the cases where you’d want to use something like a rel=nofollow on those links.

 

But How Would Google Know These These Are Self Made Links?

It seems clear to me that Google is saying that guest posting should not be used as a method of getting links to your site.  The question that always comes up when I have this conversation though, is that of how Google would be able to tell that a link is self placed vs. naturally earned.

In some situations it is quite easy to tell that a link is self placed.  I think that it would be very easy for Google to devalue links that come from author boxes.  We have also seen that overusing keywords as anchor text can get you into trouble as well.  If the algorithm sees that hundreds of people are linking to you from the body of articles and all of them are using the keyword, “cheap car insurance” to link to you then that is probably pretty easy for the algorithm to pick up as a linking scheme.

But, what if you are really smart about how you are linking?  Surely there are ways to trick the algorithm?  At this point, you probably can avoid Penguin by being creative in how you link back to your site via guest posts.  However, I think that it is very difficult to do guest blogging on a large scale and still be able to avoid detection should your site receive a manual review.  In some cases a manual review can happen if a competitor reports your site to the webspam team, but we don’t really know why some sites get reviewed manually by Google.

My Experiences with High Quality Guest Posting Getting Sites Penalized

When I first started doing unnatural links penalty removal, the sites that I worked with had really obvious unnatural links in their backlink profile.  It was quite simple to audit links and weed out the spam from the natural links.  However, as I gained credibility as someone who knows how to get penalties removed, I started to work with larger companies who had received unnatural links penalties from Google.  I noticed that the unnatural links were not always so obvious.  Here is the thought process that I often go through as I start to audit links from a site that has done some sophisticated link building:

“This looks like a good link.  We’ll call it natural.”

“Oh…this is a good one.  They got a mention in an article on a high quality tech site.”

 “Interesting…another mention from a high quality tech site.  This article looks a little bit similar to the last one.”

 “What?  Another one?  This is an article on a different topic but it is linking to the same page as the others.”

When I first started doing audits like this it took me a while, but eventually I could see patterns indicating that these links could be self made.  Now that I have done several high profile audits, the patterns stand out much quicker.

 

Here are some patterns that I might notice:

-Although keywords are not used directly as anchor text, the site may use a variation of the keyword for each link.

-In some cases, the articles that are published on high quality sites are very similar to each other but different enough that a machine-run algorithm could not pick up the similarities.

-Often these articles will link out to Wikipedia, Published articles, and other non-commercial sources and then there will be one link to a commercial source and of course, that link goes to their site.

Some other patterns are hard to put into words. But what I can tell you is that as I manually review these links I can very quickly notice that these are not naturally earned links but that they are self made. If I can quickly come to this conclusion after doing backlink audits for a few sites, imagine the patterns that the webspam team can see after looking at thousands and thousands of such backlink profiles!

Many of these sites that I have worked with came to me after failing several reconsideration requests.  In several cases the site owners had gotten rid of all of their obviously spammy links but did not think that these links from high quality websites could be contributing to their penalty.  In most cases, once we addressed the guest blogging the penalty was removed.

Client experiences

I have consulted with several large brands who have been given an unnatural links penalty.  In one particular case it was quite obvious that guest posting was a strategy that had been used in order to gain links.  This site had hundreds of posts that were published on very well known sites.  If you look at one or two of these, you’d think they were perfectly valid links.  But, seeing hundreds of them makes you realize that the purpose was to gain links.  This site has failed at reconsideration and Google has given them examples of unnatural links which include links in “high quality” guest posts.  They also include links from scraper sites who have copied these guest posts.  It’s quite a mess to clean up.
 
Update:The site mentioned above tried repeatedly on their own to remove their penalty and could not. They hired us to do the job for them and we convinced them that their guest posts were likely their main problem. We did a very thorough link audit. Our strategy was to remove (or where not possible, disavow) any keyword anchored links in guest posts and hold on to the brand or url anchored ones for now and remove those should we fail on our first attempt. Surprisingly our first attempt passed and the site is now penalty free. There are two interesting facts that can be noted about this case:

  1. At this point, Google seems to view only keyword anchored links in guest posts as unnatural.
  2. These links have been removed for over two months now. The penalty was lifted a few days ago. There has been a very slight increase in rankings. We removed a LARGE number of links from relatively authoritative sites. You would expect that the rankings would have decreased, but they did not. This makes me believe that Google was already discounting those links.

     

    Aren’t These  Links Editorially Earned?

    Proponents of guest posting will argue that these links are indeed natural because the owner of the site that published the article had to made an editorial decision to publish the article.  But does this mean that the link should count when it comes to increasing your site’s PageRank?

    To answer this question we need to understand more about why we try to get links.  If you are at all interested in learning about how Google works, I would highly recommend reading the book, “In the Plex”  by Steven Levy.  The early search engines like Yahoo, InfoSeek and Alta Vista were not very good at answering search queries.  When Larry Page and Sergey Brin created Google it was so much better than anything in existence and this was mostly because of Larry’s invention of Page Rank.  In this system, if Site A linked to Site B then this was considered a vote for the quality of Site B.  If Site A was an authoritative site, then this was an even more powerful vote.  Google was the first search engine to base its ranking system on links.  Check out this article from 1998  about how Google emerged as the best search engine.  I found this quote interesting:

     

    And according to Page, its site-ranking approach is nearly impossible for devious webmasters to trick or “spam,” since it’s based on links and judgments made by other respected sites: “You have to actually convince someone who’s important that you’re important.”

     

    Over the years we did find ways to game the system.  When you get a guest post published and link back to your site, is Site A really making a judgement about the quality of Site B?  Are they linking to you because they are vouching for your site? Or are you just gaming the system?

    Do I Do Guest Blogging?

    I may look like a hypocrite here because I have indeed written guest posts. I do publish the occasional guest post on moz.com  or searchenginewatch.com  and other sites.  But, I don’t do it so that I can get a link back to my site.  Guest posts like this bring me traffic and clients.  Will I be penalized because the links pointing back to me on those sites don’t have a nofollow tag?  No.  Why not?  Because it’s about scale.  Google is unlikely to penalize you if you have a few guest posts that link back to your site.  But, if you have used guest posting as a method to gain links on a large scale, you may be in trouble if your site gets manually reviewed.

     

    So How Do You Get Links?

    This is the ultimate question in SEO.  Links are still powerful when it comes to adding SEO value.  But Google has a team of extremely intelligent engineers whose mission is to make it so that only naturally earned links will help a site appear higher in the search engine results.  At this point there are still ways where you can game the system and create your own links, but they are getting less and less effective.  Ultimately, the way to succeed is to find ways to get people to actually link to your content naturally.  This is something that is very hard to do, especially on a large enough scale to make a difference.  In my opinion, the SEO who is able to master the art of attracting links is one who will be in high demand.  I will be writing in the future about good natural ways to attract links to your site.  If you would like to keep up to date with my writings, you can follow me on Twitter.

     

    Added July 10: Eric Enge has just published a great interview with Matt Cutts in which he speaks about guest blogging.  Here is what Matt said:

    The challenge with guest posting is that people have different conceptions about what it means. And so for a lot of people, a guest post is something that a fantastic author has thought deeply about, labored over, polished, put a lot of work into and then publishes on a highly reputable domain name.

    Posts like that can be a great way to get your name out there, to build your reputation, to make yourself more well-known, potentially build links or traffic or help with your SEO.

    The problem is that if we look at the overall volume of guest posting we see a large number of people who are offering guest blogs or guest blog articles where they are writing the same article and producing multiple copies of it and emailing out of the blue and they will create the same low quality types of articles that people used to put on article directory or article bank sites.

    If people just move away from doing article banks or article directories or article marketing to guest blogging and they don’t raise their quality thresholds for the content, then that can cause problems. On one hand, it’s an opportunity. On the other hand, we don’t want people to think guest blogging is the panacea that will solve all their problems.

    This is good news and means that Google is saying that it is ok to Guest Post if it is truly a guest post in the sense that it is a very high quality article that was not written primarily for the purpose of receiving a link, and not a way to get links on a large scale.  I still maintain that I have worked with clients who have been penalized because of overuse of what would be called high quality guest posting.  I think that if you are able to get an article published on an authoritative site and you are able to link back to yourself this can be ok.  But, if you are able to do that hundreds of times then Google can see that as a linking scheme, especially if your site is manually reviewed.

     

    Added October 17:

    Yesterday, Matt Cutts put out another video in which he talks about guest posting.  He describes ways that Google can detect whether the guest posts were created mostly for the purpose of gaining links.  He is basically saying that doing the odd guest post here and there is acceptable, but when there is a large scale, then it’s not something that falls within the quality guidelines:

     

Want to keep up to date on Google Penalty News?

Sign up for the Google Penalty Information Newsletter and Dr. Marie Haynes will send you regular updates on the latest in Google Penalties and algorithm changes such as Penguin and Panda:

  • http://recalibrate.co/ Ryan McLaughlin

    This is an interesting overview. I’m still doubtful that G is able to algorithmically detect a guest posting strategy unless the author is really irresponsible with standard author boxes, anchor text, etc. However, under manual review it could cause trouble. Thanks for sharing the examples about reconsideration and how the guest post links fit into that, I think this was the most important part of the post.

    Good stuff Marie.

    • Sha Menz

      Hey Ryan,

      If you are doubtful I would recommend spending a few hundred hours doing manual analysis for sites under penalty. If I can spot a potential problem with guest posting by scanning the URLs in a backlink profile, then it isn’t much of a stretch to believe an algorithm with the power of Google’s can spot it too.

      Incidentally, on the subject of how sites are identified for manual review, John Mueller has already acknowledged in a hangout that sites are flagged for manual review by its algorithms and isn’t it interesting that a significant number of sites which appear to have been hit by an algorithm update actually turn out to be under a manual penalty? Strange coincidence that those manual penalties seem to be applied at the same time as the update occurs? I don’t think so.

      Sha

      • http://www.hiswebmarketing.com/ Marie Haynes

        Thanks for your comments Sha and Ryan. Sha, do you have a reference for where John said that sites are flagged for manual review by the algorithm? I would love to have that handy as a lot of people ask me why they got manually reviewed.

        • Sha Menz

          Hey Marie,

          It’s from quite a while ago and he was referring to all kinds of quality issues – I’ll dig it up for you.

          Sha

          • http://www.hiswebmarketing.com/ Marie Haynes

            Awesome. Thanks!

          • http://www.hiswebmarketing.com/ Marie Haynes

            Hey Sha…just rereading the comments on this post. Were you able to find a reference for where John mentioned that sites are flagged for manual review by the algorithm? Thanks!

      • http://recalibrate.co/ Ryan McLaughlin

        Great points. What I meant to question was not G’s ability but if it was actually doing it. Now, I hadn’t thought about the flag system and how that increases the risk of this strategy since they can just set up a bunch of sites to manually review if it gives off bad signals. I’m definitely about to research info about the team behind these reviews and how big that team is. I’m wondering what their capacity is.

        Good job on your talk today at MozCon by the way.

        Ryan

  • Sha Menz

    Hey Marie,

    You’re absolutely on the money with this post…the pity is that I fear you (and I) are preaching to those who will never see the light on this one :(

    For those who are having trouble grasping what you are saying I have two pieces of advice:

    1) Buy a dictionary and look up the word “guest”

    2) Turn off brain and REBOOT!

    Where I come from, a guest is someone that is freely invited to participate because you genuinely value them as a friend (or in this case contributor). Not someone you give an opportunity to because they bang on your door and and beg to be let in. No matter how nicely (or should I say manipulatively) you craft your “relationship building”, if you set out to make it happen then it isn’t “natural”.

    The real tragedy of all this is that people are so bound up in “link juice” that they are completely missing the point that a no-followed link on a site that is avidly read by millions is likely to bring much more exposure and bottom line result for their business than they might gain from scraping up little bits of link juice all over the web.

    I hope a few people read your post and hear the message :)

    Sha

    • joeyoungblood

      See what light? John Mueller makes an extremely vague comment and everyone loses their minds. Things to remember: John Mueller is not on Google’s Web Spam team he is a Web Trends Analyst, Matt Cutts has not commented on JM’s comments, and guest blogging where work is editorially reviewed is not likely to harm anyone. The site posting the content has final say on what links get included.

      It’s posts and thoughts like this that scare the hell out of blog owners from allowing guest bloggers. And for no good reason. Guest blogging and contributing is a tried and true form of developing content with the cost of a only a few links.

      Now I wouldn’t post on a blog where they allow guest contributors but advertise it as “Get a link, post on my blog” that seems to be pushing the editorialness a bit.

  • daveintheuk

    Does this count if you are writing about Google Chrome too? ;-)

  • http://www.tvsinternetmarketing.com/ Carmen Rane Hudson

    It really is all about relationships now isn’t it?

  • http://profiles.google.com/trappermark Mark Traphagen

    I think you fail to properly distinguish between legitimate editorial links and links that exist only for SEO manipulation. When I guest post I never have any reservation about creating a link in the body of the content to one of my own blog posts IF the link makes sense in the context and adds value to the post. Those two things are the very definition of editorial linking as Googlers have defined it many times.

    What Matt and John are speaking against here are what they always have warned against: links in a post that would not exist if I were not the author of the guest post. But if my own post is a high quality example or expansion of a point I’m making in the guest post, then it has a legitimate place, and there is no way it would be picked up algorithmically as a spammy link.

    Second, I think you are leaping to a conclusion that the links from some of your clients on high quality sites helped CAUSE their manual penalty. I think it’s more likely that their large collection fo clearly bogus links (which you admitted they had) caused the manual review, but once reviewed, Google cast a dim eye on other links it otherwise would have looked over.

    The real lesson is: if you are going to do high quality guest posts, make sure any links you include add true value to the post, insist that your bio box links be no-followed, and dont at the same time build a lot of spammy links elsewhere.

    • Buynsale

      So it means that we should not put any link in the body of our high
      quality guest post? and if the link of our bio box is no-followed then
      where should we put our link?? and what was the purpose of this guest
      post?
      Don’t think that i am mean because many people are doing SEO
      of their clients websites therefore how they earn links from that type
      of guest posts in which there is no link back to their site even the bio
      box link is also no-follow

  • http://profiles.google.com/trappermark Mark Traphagen

    Let me add that it is a PATTERN of links over time and over many sites that triggers a review for a possible penalty. A self-referencing link here and there that makes sense in context and is adds value to the post is never going to be a problem. Just be natural: only link to your own material when it makes sense in context and is helpful. Don’t create a bunch of posts that are very similar with the same links on lots of different sites.

  • David Abramson

    Nice article…I totally understand the penalties behind low and mid-quality guest posting, article farming and spinning and such but I’m still trying to wrap my head around the section:
    My Experiences with High Quality Guest Posting Getting Sites Penalized

    Are these companies spinning articles and publishing them on high quality sites? Are they engaging in other blackhat techniques or are they simply publishing a whole lot of articles that come with backlinks to their site?

  • Brian Dean

    Fantastic post, Marie. I’ve done some testing and have already seen a huge downgrade in an author bio link’s effectiveness (even on an authoritative, niche-relevant site). Like Mark said, contextual links can combat this. But it’s definitely not a silver bullet. I’m afraid that the days of guest posting for and SEO value whatsoever are coming to an end.

    Fortunately, they’re still amazing for a million other reasons. Even if all guest posts links went nofollow I’d still do it…but significantly less often.

  • SEOd

    This is a great article, Marie. However I’m not completely in your camp. The case you build makes it sound like there is no right way to go. While I agree with a lot of the things you are saying, I don’t think Google is as focused on a backlink profile anymore as much as they are focused on the actual website. The latest update is more focused on the on page quality of your website(s) and less concerned with all your backlinks. I have a couple site that are doing a variety of tiered level linkbuilding, guest blogging and regular blogging tactics. All the sites have survived all the updates without any warnings. I’ve seen keyword rankings slowly climb, specifically for one that is highly competitive. The focus on that KW have been using a variety of all the tactics available, and I’ve seen success.

    What’s really interesting is that the most recent update hurt only one of my sites, and it wasn’t because of backlinks. It’s because the last update was more content focused, and the site that lost impressions was the only one that has the least amount of body copy on the pages. I know this and have advised the client and they are working to fix this.

    What I do agree with you on is that you want to create high quality content that other people are going to want to link to and those that are able to do that will be in high demand.

  • Milosz Pekala

    Your theory got my attention althought I have to admit I was very skeptical. By the last paragraph you had me convinced. Although wouldn’t this mean a lot of PR and “article marketing” strategies actually do more harm than good since almost all of them have follow links in them? Fine line we are forced to walk here…
    Thanks for sharing!

  • http://seonutshell.co.uk/ SEOnuthsell

    To be honest a well written article with a high quality contextual link in a relevant place can do a world of good for your blog or website. I try to build backlinks on sites with PR5 or higher, but if natural backlinks appear on lower PR sites then so be it.

    If low quality backlinks made a HUGE difference, then it would be easier to take out a competitor by getting on of those fiverr gigs that give you 30k backlinks to a site, to a competitors site in the hopes google will penalize them.

    I think it would be a much better option if you paid someone for the opportunity to publish an amazing article on there amazing site :)

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  • http://www.dreamtechie.com/ Yogita Aggarwal

    Hey Marie,

    In short should i say – Guest Posts with poor content value and stuffed anchor links can cause penalty?

    • http://www.hiswebmarketing.com/ Marie Haynes

      Well yes…but it’s more than that. Those types of links have been not good links for some time. What I am seeing is that even good quality guest posts can contribute to a penalty if they are done on a large enough scale.

      • http://www.dreamtechie.com/ Yogita Aggarwal

        Yeah.. Agree.
        Access of anything can lead a big harm some goes here :)

        Thanks @MarieHaynes:disqus for great information.

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    Welcome to brotherhood Illuminati occult where you can become rich famous and popular and your life story we be change totally my name is MR.GEORGE FRED I am here to share my testimony on how I join the great Illuminati brotherhood and my life story was change immediately. I was very poor no job and I has no money to even feed and take care of my family I was confuse in life I don’t know what to do I try all my possible best to get money but no one work out for me each day I share tears, I was just looking out my family no money to take care of them until one day I decided to join the great Illuminati occult, I come across them in the internet I never believe I said let me try I email them at illuminatibrotherhood666@outlook.com all what they said we happen in my life just started it was like a dream to me they really change my story totally . through the Illuminati I was able to become rich, and have many industry on my own and become famous and popular in my country , today me and my family is living happily and I am the most happiest man here is the opportunity for you to join the Illuminati occult and become rich and famous in life and be like other people and you life we be change totally.If you are interested in joining the great brotherhood Illuminati occult.then his contact +2349033302882 and email: illuminatibrotherhood666@outlook.com.

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